E1 - First Nation's Post-Secondary Education

"In relation to the economy and First Nations, do you think the federal government's idea of turning the First Nations post-secondary education program into a third-party managed repayable loans program is a good one? Why/Why not?" - proposed by J. Hunter

Participants:

Len Gibbins, Joyce Hunter, Byron, Adele Faubert, Daniel Yerxa, Diane Hiscox, Rosie Mosquito

In relation to economy and First Nations:
Do you think the federal governments idea of turning the First Nation post-secondary education program into a 3rd-party managed repayable loans program a good one? Why? Why not?
I asked this question because the Tories, just before Christmas, quietly announced they had struck a panel to review this program. At the end of the review, the panel will make its recommendation.
I have a lot of concerns with the notion of changing this structure. I realize that many First Nations people’s student success rate in general is not as good as Canada’s general population. There are more First Nations drop out from all levels of education. I think the whole system is fractured right from the very bottom: as soon as children enter school for kindergarten they are going into a system that is critically underfunded. Many times the teachers offering the course are first-time teachers teaching multiple grades at once. Ie. Kindergarten to Grade 3. Those teachers also tend to lack access to proper facilities, books and teaching materials that are age appropriate.
But you have to look at the whole picture; many of the remote First Nations that are out there have overcrowded homes, the general health of the communities’ population is poorer and there are larger more pressing social issues (ie. Some families are having to decide whether to pay their hydro bill or feed their families). In situations like those education becomes an aside. 40 per cent of First Nation students from our area go to school without having had breakfast. It’s hard to learn on an empty stomach.
I know this all sounds demoralizing, but it’s a reality that our communities have to live with.
We can all agree that First Nation students do not want to live in poverty, they do not want to have to rely on a third party to meet their day-to-day living needs.
We know that the unemployment rate is sits at around 80 per cent in our First Nations. We want to ensure that situation changes. What I have a concern with is: if a potential lender looks at an application from a remote First Nation where they know there is no economy and have to decide whether to fund that student to go to college or university as part of a repayable loans program, how is it that they can say yes?
Going back to the success rates of students, it bothers me that the insinuation is that it’s the First Nations fault that they are not succeeding. They are underfunded. That’s the plain and simple truth. We want second and third-level services like special education teachers, speech therapists, curriculum writers and so on. We simply do not have those types of services all across the board.
What we have in our communities, for the most part, is a system that is set up to fail. Despite this, we do have students that have graduated on the honour roll at the post secondary level and who are contributing to the larger economy.

But you have to consider the impacts such a decision would mean to Canada as a whole. Fewer FNs people would be able to get a post secondary education  - the Baby boomers are on their way to retirement. As I said earlier the First Nations segment of the population is increasing expontially. If we invest in them then we will have a stronger Canadian economy. Canada cannot afford to continue to ignore this segment of society as it has been for the last 100 plus years.
 

To foster economic development the first step is education.

training: being able to gear our people up to work in the broader economy

I can't support the government making a treaty right into a repayable loan program.

Years ago, the Tories has said they would force First Nations people to pay for their education. And here they are again, saying the same thing.

How is that plan going to make a First Nation that has 80 per cent unemployment better?

Doesn't it make sense to educate the people so they can contribute to the Canadian economy?

We have the youngest, fastest growing demographic in Canada.

There are misconceptions in Canada about First Nations: that they don't pay taxes. This is a huge misconception. I pay my municipal property taxes, I pay my GST.

 In 1991, we built a 24-milliion hydro plant, in 2008, we have yet to see our first check. The province has realized about $15 million in taxes.

 Diane Hislop Most of us would think that this is not a good idea. How can we advocate that this doesn't happen.

I think that people here. Maybe there is information. How do you position paper and do a media strategy?

There is a two per cent cap on education. I don't trust anybody now with the economy.

I actually had an aboriginal person who took me on Mount McKay. How do you feel that I had. There are many disadvantages that Aboriginal students face that they don't have. The prejudices and biases. If there was a group at the school - they wouldn't engage the Aboriginal person who was there. The dollars we are talking about aren't a lot when you think about it in the grand scheme of things.

When they come from those communities, there is upgrading that they need to do: I don't think that adding this type of structure to what already exists is not the way to go.

You couldn't get from community to community. You have to fly. Everything is super expensive. Fresh fruit is not not available. The employment opportunities is limited. In terms of this, I would like to see the post-secondary education program that is

 Man: The govern allocates $5,400 per First Nations child for education and three times as much for a non-Native child. So a child from Greenstone, a neighbouring municipality from my First Nations, gets $15,000 allocated to them. It has to be about support for the educational success! 

In terms of success, it has to do with your family and the supports it provides to its children. There is a host of things that has to happen in order for them to succeed. They need supports, you can't just throw them into a large urban centre and hope for them to succeed but that's what happens.

Well there is the quality of the education on the reserve: it is difficult for FNs to attract properly qualified educators like the ones that you would see in municipalities. They tend to pull from their own communities. 

In my practice of medicince, the words that I use is: "you should do this" (I'm a physio therapist by trade). But I wouldn't know how to engage an Aboriginal student. They don't have that "you should do this" way of talking to each other in their culture. It's not bossy and invasive.  

A decison like this (announcing it's become a repayble loans program) wouldn't just impact FNs, it would also effect the larger economy. There would be more FNs people relying on the social system instead of contributing to the economy.  

In terms of going to university, I was the only Aboriginal person taking political science at my university. When they would talk about lands rights and other First Nations-related issues, I would end up having to argue with 30 to 35 of my classmates. There were times when I walked out of class frustrated. They seem to think that we as First Nations should know everything.  

I think you need to look at the non-aboriginal students. 

We need to take a serious look at the dropout rate amongst first nations communities and that impact it has on our ability to succeed. 

The impact of residential schools also plays a part in our education.

only 20% of aboriginal people have a college education, and only 7 per cent have a university education.

Why are our students dropping out like flies?

Culturally appropriate curriculum is vital to the aboriginal students success in all levels of education.

Why do you spend 1/10th of funding on First Nation cirriculum.

Do you think that I as a parent would not have enforced. Community and parental support is very important.

Our council realized the important part of education. They called the community's parents together and talked to the parents to impress upon them the importance of education.

These kids are going to other towns and other people's homes to get their education.

But then also doing what we are now doing at the post-secondary level, the onus is not just on our parents, it is also our responsibility as individuals to succeed educationally.

The last point in terms of this, it's a bad idea. It's a treaty right. And you don't do that by starting to break treaties. What do we do to make our treaty partners understand.

 I need to turn every Indian into a tax payer. I don't agree with that. I think there is leadership within the Aboriginal population. I still think you need to advocate. you need to inform and educate people such as me.

I think there are people who are willing to change cirriculum. I think Obama is a good example.

This is a civil rights issue. I think the government - particularly this cynical government. I think what's happening from the bean counter government and that educated FNs people are challenging the governments and they are wanting to cut that off by cutting their funding supply.

Going back to the right to post secondary education - I have personally experienced the benefits of education and firmly believe it is the way out to success. If I had to choice I would go back. That is where I would prefer to be. That is where I preper to live. But I am in the city helping to get others educated. I think  the federal government has a responsibilty to provide education its a fiduciary responsibility. The whole country will benefit.

The first document I ever read our it was addressed to our Great White Mother from her humble Red Children. And when you think about our children and we see them around that Victoriaville Mall - how do we get those children back into school.

 I've been Adele Faubert: involved in working with northern remote communities and what First Nations people and the equality of the education - I work at the Mussellwhite Mine and we've actually lowered our standards for employment requirements to Grade 10 from the industry standard of Grade 12.

Len: It's our responsibility to promote education ; education gets put on the back burner because there are much more crucial basic needs in our communities - we are busy in survival mode rather than thinking about education.

There is no question the federal and provincial governments are short-changing our FNs people. Well (turns to educated FN man) Well, you did it to your children. If you did that and you demanded from the community behaviour that led to education and change and if you don't have the financial resoureces, then you have a case to make to potential funders.

Anymous lady, from my understanding, in the Aboriginal community, you don't demand. It's a whole different culture: you don't use the word should or must. There has to be a community that values education. It's so different. And that's why I struggle. What is brought in is a model that is based on a a non-Aboriginal group. The community is also responsible to our community.

 Every community can have an educational standard - you can set that standard: ie, you have to have a Grade 12 education before you can work for our band. And then that can help our First Nations (individually) increase its educational standards.

We can say look, if you are investing in people and training: (to the federal government) why don't you invest in First Nations people as well.

We need to try and find a First Nation that is willing to take on a Mishkeegogamang - here is an opportunity where there is an abandoned facility where there is an opportunity for training. However, no one was willing to come forward with some resourcing

In order to address this problem, that is through broad-based social movement. this one is a particularly unque topic that send a very clear message not through policy channels. direct action gets the goods. Minimum wage and other things like that came not from policy at government it came from the people. Also, it would give our youth and children the realization that they want and education and to pursue it.

the appeal though on the broader scale is - do we have a right to an education?

We become credit consumers. I think it is that it recognized and that it be honoured by the federal government. This is about our economic well-being not just as First Nations living within canada, but as a country living together.

We have to make sure there are opportunities, not only in First Nations, but for the country.